The following speech was given by Major General Stubblebine, an important advocate of the military use of Psi and related techniques. This took place at the International Symposium on UFO Research Sponsored by the International Association for New Science Denver, Colorado, May 22-25, 1992.
(Introduction by Dr. Steven Greer of Gen. (Ret.) Stubblebine’s military career as Commanding officer of the U.S. Army Intelligence and Security Command (INSCOM), his efforts to study unusual human performance for the Army, his involvement as Chairman of the Board of Directors of PSI TECH, his association with TREAT and with Soviet Technology Transfer, etc.)
(Begins with casual remarks on “why a person like me is in a place like this talking to a group of people like you on a subject like wherever it is we are talking today; continues with casual jokes about rapturing the audience, ethnic jokes about Hittites “with a slight Japanese flavor” about kamikaze pilots on WW2, leading to the phrase, “Are you out of your f—— mind? That, ladies and gentlemen, is the title of this talk because what I plan to talk is remote viewing”).
So what is remote viewing? [From now on abbreviated as RV -ed.]
First of all, it is a very systematic, very controlled method of accessing information that is not normally available by any other source, that’s about fi~ll isn’t it? Accessible information that is not accessible by any other source. I told you, if you either did it or believe in it, you probably would be out of your mind because everyone knows that that is not a doable do, can’t do that, however, we can and we do, so first of all let me tell you a little bit about what remote viewing is. It is independent of time, OK? So I can go past, I can go present, I can go future. It is independent of location, so I can go anywhere on this earth, I can go into any closet, I can go into any mind, I can access that information at any location that I choose. It is independent of space, therefore, I can access that information any place in on the planet or off of it if I choose; and it is independent of countermeasures, I believe I put a caveat on the last one, not a caveat on the first, small caveat on the last one because all of the research has not been done at this stage on the counter measures.
There are indications that some counter measures are possible, we have bumped on indications of counter measures but that piece of research has not been done at this stage of the game, so I believe it is independent of most counter measures, I am not totally convinced that is independent of all countermeasures. What is remote viewing not, if I can screw my English there? What will RV not do, OK? Well, first of all, it is not a panacea, it is not a end-all to all end-alls, it provides threads, it provides ideas, it provides detailed information, but it should not, we do not and should not be used as an absolute panacea, an absolute truth; it needs to be, that information that’s gleaned from the RV set needs to be taken and co-related with all other information that you know in order to make the picture that you then makes decisions and recommendations from there is a lot of differences between using it as an end-all and using it as a tool, as a tool to provide you information that you- cannot get in other ways and to make sense of the picture that you think, there is a lot of difference between using it as gospel and using it as a tool to be integrated with the rest of the tools that are available.
What is it not? It does not – not at this stage of the game, do numbers well nor does it do words well or letters well. For instance, I could not go in and read a report that is in somebody’s safe, I might be able to get the essence of that report but I could not read it, I can get sensings of it but I cannot at this stage of the game go in and do the reading, and numbers or particular hard letters are hard, OK?
What is it not? It is not a tool to be used by the callous or the undisciplined or those people who have for want of another word or another thought, let me call it an evil intent and I know that word has all kinds of ramifications, but it is tool that is to be used to help, not a tool that is to be used for illicit purposes, so that gives you a little bit of an idea of what it can do and what it can’t do. I frequently get the question what is the difference between RV and natural or personal psychic abilities, I get that question very frequently from people who don’t understand when they listen to the words that I am talking about, so they say, ah! but I know a psychic who does, so they say what is the difference between what you do in a RV sense and what they do in a pure natural, psychic fashion or manner?
There are a couple of differences and the first one is the training- The training for our viewers in a one year, six- stage training course, one year six stages, OK? so there is an incredible amount of very carefully monitored, very carefully metered very carefully controlled process that is taught to all of our remote viewers, and as Steven (Greer–ed.) indicated, I am the Chairman of the Board of this company called PSI TECH and we have six remote viewers, all of whom have been through the one year training as well as a lot of experience of doing RV itself, each one of those is a very well trained, very controlled person, very highly disciplined individual- Sometime ago when we had the draft, we haven’t had the draft in the Army for a long period of time, but at one time the Pentagon was considering the kind of people it ought to draft, the ones that would really make good soldiers, and the conclusion was that they should be married, and somebody said, I understand, very simple, they learn how to take orders. Well, yes, true of the people who do the RV, they must be willing to follow the instructions, the sort of programming, the methodology that is used.
The second major discipline in all of this is that there is a very carefully established protocol or methodology through which and by which remote viewers are actually given their task and how they do both their RV as well as their reporting, so there is an incredibly tight protocol established to make sure that the information that we are getting out of the data bank–and let me throw out a theorem, that there is a huge data bank that exists out there that can be accessed, OK? there is a huge bank out there, all you got to do is go access it, who can access it? Anybody, anybody can access that data bank, alright, these remote viewers did not have any special psychic abilities before we select to training, they didn’t, OK? they were just like you and I, or almost, but pretty close, they were just straight normal people who we trained to do this process.
Incidentally, how many people in this audience either think they are, or believe they are or play at being a psychic, or do psychic channeling, readings or anything (It seems that first there is only a small show of hands that grows at Stubblebine’s urging–ed.) The difference between the two is first of all the training, second the controlled mechanisms in which we handle our remote viewers. Now let me kind of walk you through a typical problem to give you some sense of how it occurs. Lets assume an air plane crash, its relatively easy task to do, all we do is we take three of our viewers and we will tell those three viewers as much information about the crash as we know, a) it was an air plane, b) it was Pan-Am, c) it was flying over wherever, Colorado, and it was at such and such a time and it disappeared, and no one knows where it went, OK? What happened? The other three, now, we don’t do that, all we do with the other three is we give them a controlled coordinate, incidentally the controlled coordinate is not the coordinate of the plane crash site because we don’t know where that is, it is nothing more than a control for the controller of the exercise to measure that all of the remote viewers are on the same sheet of music.
Each of the viewers now goes in and independently does his or her thing–incidentally all of our viewers right now are males, however, I have had female viewers and so that’s not, how do I express it? Right now we are very sexist, we have all males, however, that is not a bar to do RV, as a matter of fact women do very, very well as long as we can get them to the controlled protocol. I will tell you that one who we tried to train who was already a natural psychic, did not work well because the natural psychic ability kept overriding the control mechanisms and therefore we were having trouble making sure that everything stayed within the discipline and within the control box. The all six then go off independently and do their thing, and when they come back, they write out their report and provide each of the six reports to the controller, the controller now takes the six reports and begins to analyze the reports to see where the similarities and where the differences are, and from that, you then decide, or the controller decides whether you need to send that viewer back into session again for additional detail. For instance, and it frequently happens that one viewer will get a tail number or an indication of a tail number, you know, I told you numbers are hard but the tail numbers are relatively large numbers and so sometimes you can get an indication of the tail number; the second one will get you a crash site that is on top of a mountain or a third of the way down the mountain; another one may get you a piece of a coordinate or get you a coordinate, know exactly where that is, another one will get you that everybody is dead or most are dead but some are still alive, so you get different essences out of the six remote viewers.
Incidentally the remote viewers do not have to be on a single location, and most of ours are not, many are in the larger Washington metropolitan area, but one of them is in Minnesota and another one is out in Kansas, so they do not need to be co-located when they are doing their work. Each session incidentally is about a 45 minute session, we find that you go much beyond 45 minutes and you are beginning to run into lapses or a lapse in the energy field and you begin to slip off the quality of the information, so we try to limit the sessions to about 45 minutes. After the controller has taken a look at each one of the reports, he then decides on what additional work needs to be done, do you send it back to get additional data or you are satisfied with what you got, you have enough now that you can go out and write a report for the individual or the company that paid you to do the RV to begin with, so that gives you at least a sense of how one of these projects would work.
Let me talk now about some examples. I mentioned that you can go into the past or you can go into the future. Tomorrow, I believe, you get two sessions, one is with Scott Jones who I believe is going to talk about Tunguska, which was a project that PSI TECH did, and obviously, the event in Tunguska happened way in the past; you also will also heard from Dr. Laibow, she is not talking about her project, but PSI TECH did a project for her and for TREAT on the Phobos-2 probe, that information was quite revealing incidentally; however, we have not released any of it at this stage of the game because we are working with the Soviets and trying to get confirmation from the Soviet system as to the accuracy of the PSI TECH RV report-so that we can get some co-relation as to the quality of project, a) that large and b) that complex. So incidentally the Phobos-2 probe disappeared off of Soviet radar screen just suddenly, it was operating and suddenly it wasn’t, and so there was a lot of curiosity about what occurred, and there has been a lot of speculation as to what really occurred to the craft, and if the remote viewers are correct, it will be a quite a revelation when we finally get the confirmation that we think is available out of the Soviet Union.
In any event, those two are projects of the past, let me now talk about projects that were of the future, that are no longer of the future, but they were at the time that they were done. One was a very large corporation here in the United States wanted to know what the power source was going to be on the lunar station on the moon when it finally got there, and we said, that sounds like an interesting project, so we took a look at that. Now that had a couple of components, one was what was going to be the power source, and also there was an indication that they wanted to mine the rock on the moon, the lunar rock, in order to extract both the hydrogen and oxygen, you combine the two you get water which you can drink, but you also get energy which you can use for an energy source, but you also get oxygen which you can breath, so it sounded kind of neat. However, when we looked at it, that’s not what we found, what we found was a small, portable existing nuclear reactor, OK? That sounded neat because it was already here, it existed on this earth, there was one problem with it, it wasn’t in the United States, as a matter of fact it was in the Soviet Union, and everybody said, oh my goodness gracious, that can’t possibly be, as a matter of fact the client in this case said, I didn’t want to hear that answer, OK? I really didn’t want to hear that, besides I can’t get to that reactor anyway because the Soviet is still a closed system, OK?
Well, I don’t know whether you have been reading the newspapers lately, but there is or has been in the newspapers a system, a Soviet system called TOPAZ, and TOPAZ, the United States just bought or just arranged to buy, I don’t think its gotten here yet but it arranged to get it here, and it is a small portable existing nuclear reactor that is suitable for space, OK? and that work was done for this corporation about three years before, two and a half years earlier, so the work was done but it was done for a future event, and in essence at least part of that future event appears to have taken place…
The lunar exploration is actually up there and operating and that’s the system they have, I can’t (do anything about it?) because we haven’t got there yet, that’s what the indicators are. The second kind of interesting project dealt with again a very large U.S. corporation that had extensive interest in the price of oil in the Middle East and what would be the impact of what was going on in the Middle East and what it would be like after it was over; in other words, they really were interested in after the dust settled over in that part of the world, what was the situation going to be so that this corporation could make up its mind how it wanted to posture itself vis-a-vis the then time frame, now the time frame was August 1990 and that was during Desert Shield, not desert Storm but desert Shield. The project was to look inside (Saddam) Hussein’s head and find out what he was thinking and where he was going and what he was going to do, now this was ahead of time, I want you to know this was before Desert Storm, this was Desert Shield, alright? The attempts, in spite of two assassination attempts he would still be there and he would still be in charge, OK? Well, one of those assassination attempts has been verified, I’ve never seen any intelligence or information or corroboration about the second assassination attempt, I know that one was attempted, OK? He obviously is still alive. The second piece of that not asked for, but clearly indicated as picked up by the viewers as they looked at it, was a huge oil fire, huge oil conflagration. Well that’s kind of interesting because that obviously also occurred.
Now let me get back to the sort of the psychics versus the remote viewers because I don’t admit this and God and this is on tape too, Jesus Oh Boy! I am not a trained remote viewer, I am not a natural psychic, OK? However, I do get, I am highly visual and I do get lots of interesting images; about two months before the fires actually occurred in the Middle East, before Hussein actually set fire to the oil wells. I had seen an incredibly dramatic image; and it was of a huge fire; now the fire, I can see this incredible set of black smoke and I could see vertically what to be sticks, you know, I could see the base of, and I concluded that is was a forest fire, OK? and so i took it out of Kuwait and I moved it somewhere else in the world because there are no trees in Kuwait to have a forest fire with, you know, logic tells you that there are no trees, therefore you cannot have a forest fire, therefore, it cannot be Kuwait, boom, all right? Wrong! Wrong! The minutes those pictures came on TV I knew instantaneously that that’s what I had seen, and what I had missed were the trees with oil rigs, OK?
Now, what happens in that case is analytic overlay, and it is part of the protocol to remove that overlay from remote viewers so that you don’t get that misconclusion or that misdirection, it is precisely what we do in the controlled process, protocol that extracts the overlay away from the experience of the individuals See, my experience says if you got stick you got trees – got trees you got forest fires, if you got forest fires you are not in Kuwait right? Boom! See the logic? All of that was overlay that I put there myself, now we don’t allow that with our remote viewers and we do have a protocol that stops that dead in its tracks and removes that overlay do that we don’t get the experiential piece in there, we get access to the data is in the data base to bring it back and give it pure, that’s the system and that’s the primary difference between the sort of the pure psychic and what we believe to be the remote viewers, or our trained remote viewers. (Jokes about onions with long ears that occasionally bring tears to your eyes) That really is the neat part about remote viewing because occasionally you get right on the money, so much so that bring tears to your eyes if you are right there, that’s kind of the essence of the difference between those two elements.
Let me talk to you about where you might take this kind of a tool and do something with it, and again I am not sure I want to be on tape for this. We have looked at Mars, we have looked at UFOs, we spent some time looking at Mars, tomorrow I believe that you are going to hear a presentation on the Mars phenomena, and if I am correct, that you will be told that there are structures on the surface of Mars. I will tell you for the record that there are structures underneath the surface of Mars that cannot be seen by the Voyager cameras that went by in 1976, which is what you are going to hear tomorrow; I will also tell you that there are machines on the surface of Mars and there are machines under the surface of Mars that you can look at, you can find out in detail, you can see what they are, where they are, who they are and a lot of detail about them.
Now, you can do that through RV and I defy any sensor anywhere in this world today that can do that kind of analysis or give you those kinds of leads, it just doesn’t exist today. Now, someday we will put a Mars station, someday we will go there, someday we will see all of this, someday we will find it, but today you do not have any capability to verify what I am saying so I can I say it, which makes it nice. As far as the UFOs are concerned, they can be accessed, they can be tracked, we have looked at the propulsion system for them, that’s not a hard job, you can track them back to where they come from, whether they come from a place here on this planet or whether they come from a place on another planet, they are trackable and you can take a look inside as well as outside, so again it is a tool that is available to be used for the UFO research and I guess, I guess that’s the reason that I am standing on this platform in spite of my misgivings and feeling a little bit nervous like a tree on a Lassie program.
Last but not least, let me explore the fact that this technology has not been proven in terms of a Mars or a UFO kind of a tool, I will tell you, however, though, because one of the things which I am sure is going through everybody’s mind is what is the statistical success rate if you will, how good are you, how good are your remote viewers, where do they stand. Are they 50-50, because I can flip a coin and do that; are they at 51 versus 49, because if they are that’s better than the flip of a coin. I will tell you that its better than a B-plus, better than a B-plus, now for all of you who remember, I had trouble remembering that far back to High School, it was about 200 years ago, but if my recollection is correct, B-plus was about 85 or better. If you do it properly and begin to take the project, get the large overview, take it down like a telescopic lens to the next layer, take it down to the next telescopic lens cut out into the next layer and keep going down until you are down to the nuts and bolts, that number can go as high as 95 percent success rate, it is a phenomenal tool, it is a phenomenal tool. We have failures, yeah, we have some, not often but we do, occasionally you get noise, you get an override of some sort, and that’s why I said I am not sure about all of the counter measures at this stage of the game, OK?
(He then answered questions from the audience).
(Question from audience on further details about PSI TECH’s protocols)
OK, let me answer the last one first, the protocol was developed by Ingo Swann who is himself a natural psychic, and he has patented the protocol, that’s first and foremost; the second, where we get the errors, the errors appear to come out of interference, now what is interference? Interference appears to be some counter measure of some sort, so there appears to be some areas that we are having trouble accessing, it appears that when you have trouble accessing them that there is a wall that has been built up, I don’t know, I guess I’d call it a psychic wall of some sort. (Audience interjects comment) You get, you sort of bang up against a wall, you go bonk. I have just been reminded that the president of PSI TECH and is himself a remote viewer, but he doesn’t do much, he acts more as the control.
(Question about mental state of the viewers)
Completely passive, totally passive obviously is a state of mind, the individual state of mind, heavily Theta, for those of you who understand brain waves, its a Theta brain wave state of mind that they are in, we’ve actually measured some of them and they are very heavy in the Theta brain wave arena, but it is totally passive as far as I can tell, there is no active instrument other than the mind that is accessing the information.
(Question on to what extent are major governments using RV)
I haven’t the foggiest freaking ass idea (laughter). You did see foreign governments, that’s what I thought you said. (Questioner clarifies he said major governments). Rule one, I will not talk about anything that preceded my retirement, OK? excuse me, I will not talk about anything that preceded my retirement that is classified, that’s a better way of expressing it, so anybody that and I have been asked that question over and over and over and over again, I made an oath, I have no intention of breaking that oath. Now, let’s talk about foreign governments because that’s a different story. The Soviets have been doing RV, they call it extra-sense, they have been doing that for years, at one time the Soviet budget, the second highest part of the Soviet budget was in paranormal, parapsychological experts that’s not true today but that was true probably six years ago. at least six years ago, that was a true statement, so the second highest right behind the defense budget was the money for the parapsychologcial/paranormal work, so if there is anybody who doesn’t believe that the Soviets have been playing in that business, does not understand what they are doing. We have been in contact, and as a matter of fact to my knowledge, we had on the platform at TREAT-IV in Atlanta, we had on the platform simultaneously the president of PSI TECH and the president of a Soviet enterprise, civilian enterprise headed by Ivan Sokolov, who does the same thing in the Soviet Union, I think that’s a first, OK? And what we are trying to do together is to devise a project that will use the capabilities of both organizations, and the one we are focusing on right at the moment is finding and cleaning up the environmental hazards so that we begin to work on some of the incredible environmental problems that exist in the Soviet Union, so we picked the environment, its benign, it doesn’t get this country upset or this government upset, it doesn’t get their government upset, its something that needs to be done and so we try to pick something that its an absolutely benign topic so that everyone can support it forward, I don’t know if that answers all of your questions, but it gives you a little bit of a ramble. Yes, ma’am.
(Question on UFOs).
We got ten years of data that’s stacked up, that we kept in the closet for many of the same reasons that a lot of, well, there are people who are just barely now holding up there hands and saying, yes, I think I believe in one those, at least publicly, there is about ten years of data that we got stacked up on the UFO phenomenon, that’s the good news; the bad news is that its not all in the kind of order that it needs to be, so it needs to be gone through it, sort it, begin to analyze it, the problem with that of course it costs money and money doesn’t grow everywhere for such projects, so somebody’s got to be interested in doing that but a lot of it exists, yes?
(Question on sunspots’ interference with RV)
I don’t know, he wants to know whether sunspots would impact or affect the ability of the remote viewer to do the RV job, the reason I hesitate is because I never even thought about it, now what I have thought about or those areas where we begin to get what appear to be interference and appear to be counter measures and trying to sort that set out and make sense of it. Now, what I haven’t thought about it is whether that was a natural occurring phenomena or an intentionally on someone else’s part who is in fact trying to interfere or in effect jam our own ability to access, so the answer is I don’t know, it would be a very nice research project.
(Question about your agency, which he reacts to, PSI TECH)
Yes, we can talk about that. (Whether PSI TECH has been contacted to work on counter measures) No.
(Question on tracking of UFOs)
(Question about a rumor circulating on the Roswell crash).
No, stop that, please stop that rumor, first of all PSI TECH’s president has not looked at Roswell, OK? He has not looked at Roswell, now there was a thought that he would like to, and that has been blown from the thought that I’d like to look at it to the thought that, you know, and he went uuuuuuh, out of sight, I mean, it followed a UFO cunre, OK, so kill that rumor. Way back in the corner.
(Question on Mars machinery).
Its moving, the machinery is moving, so I don’t know, if its from a leftover civilization its got a long-live battery, its better than any of the dolls we put out on Christmas, I tell you, OK?
(Question on more of the same).
Yeah, its a structure, that’s what I say, there are structures on the surface, and incidentally I don’t want to take thunder away from anyone tomorrow, because you are going to get a chit-chat about that tomorrow and I don’t want to trail on somebody else’s toes, all I that I am saying is that there are structures on top, there are structures underneath, there are machines on top ahhhh I got a UFO!!! (Laughter) Zooong and another alien hits the dust. OK, we need to warp this in short order.
(Question on whether viewers need to be in trance).
All the viewers that we chosen so far are known quantities, there are all people that I know personally, and that’s very important because it goes back to that pitch that I made or that notion that I made on what RV was not in the beginning, and I cannot afford to have anybody that does not have absolute total integrity and absolute total that I can totally trust, so I demand total integrity, totally integrative person, because I don’t want this thing done in a way that will in any shape, form or fashion be construed as being outside the limits of normal conduct, so they are chosen very carefully. The second thing is, do they go into a trance? Well, I think mentioned we measured some of them and they are in a Theta brain wave state. OK, one more.
(Question on crop circles).
No, only because, you know, we are a for profit organization, PSI TECH is a for profit organization, OK? And if somebody would like to have the crop circles looked at, we would be more than happy to look at crop circles. Now there has been some very casual looking, you know, just to kind of test what it was and what was going on, and so there is some minor information, but we have not really done that as a process. OK, let me say in conclusion, I think I want to turn that tape back there because I am not sure that I want any of this on tape. (End of tape)